I am currently sitting on a plane flying back from a business trip to NY and was trying to read a magazine but am so bothered by something that occurred last night I had to get out my laptop and write it out so I can move on.
In recent weeks my CEO has forwarded me a couple emails from a guy who runs a PR firm in NY. I would actually really, really love to say exactly who it is but I won’t. He’s been reading about us in the news and is doing what agencies do when companies keep getting larger and larger on their radar, they start trying to work it to win the business.
Thing is, I have a PR agency. Or had. I’m pulling everything in house for a number of reasons, especially economic (hello, PR recession) so I had replied and said, thanks but we’re good for right now.
Now here’s something right away. I’m listed on the site as running the PR but said person, let’s call him Jack Ash, kept contacting my CEO. Not the person making the decision though it might seem like it if one were to assume (and you know what they say about assuming, don’t you?) OK, fine, fair enough. Maybe our website is hard to locate or even my email (which is on the press page.)
At the end of January Jack emailed my CEO this:
Do you ever hire a PR firm or consultant here in NYC? We exchanged ems a few months back.. {your company} is huge now… saw you were looking for PR people a while back too.
My CEO wasn’t looking for PR people. I was. And I was looking for a manager in LA to work in-house. But I digress. My company just won a nice high-profile award for Company of the Year, which we accepted earlier this week. It was a lot of work on my part as well as the rest of the company to bring it home, but it has always been part of my larger PR strategy to win it.
So Jack, decides to post a congratulations on my Facebook wall (vs. messaging me) and then take the opportunity to pimp his own company by letting me know that his firm can get me in touch with x,y,z reporters (all of which I already have relationships with.) Now anyone who has read my past columns knows that, to me, media is just one part of PR (and certainly NOT the reason I’d hire a PR agency.)
So I replied directly to Jack on Facebook with a message that basically looked like the below. I’d cut and paste the original but I was so turned off I deleted it.
Dear Jack,
Thanks for reaching out but I’m going to be bluntly honest. I’ve never understood why PR agencies reach out and offer to help with something that a company is clearly already doing a really good job at. And this was even at the agencies I worked at! We’re set right now with all those reporters that you listed and some. I’m currently pulling all resources in house and don’t anticipate working with an outside agency in the foreseeable future. That said, if I should ever be considering I will definitely keep your firm in mind for the RFP process.
Best,
Nicole
Now this is where it took a turn for the worse (for him, not me.) This was the reply he sent:
If I thought you were “set” I wouldn’t have reached out. Why do you think companies like Yahoo, Google and Apple hire PR agencies? You really are full of yourself.
<end>
Um. Excuse me? So I replied and basically said I wasn’t trying to toot my own horn and that I didn’t say I was “set,” I said I was set with those reporters he listed. And that if he wanted me to consider his firm it would be wiser to make recommendations on what I am missing or could be doing better instead of telling me he can connect me with people I already know. And then I de-friended him and blocked him on Twitter.
So to re-cap: Jack Ash trying to win business of hot company that is “everywhere” (that didn’t happen by accident, Jack;) I say no thanks and am honest why; he insults me; I delete him and now have an incredibly negative perception of this person’s professionalism, of which I shared with my CEO – who for one, doesn’t even know the guy – and my VP of Marketing whose response after reading the exchange is not fit for this website.
There are several things that have been bothering me about this so I thought I’d turn the whole experience into a post that can serve as a learning experience for any agencies out there trying to chase a “hot company” as a new business lead.
1. If you find a company you’re interested in make sure you are talking to the decision maker. The CEO may run the company but in mine I am the final word on anything to do with PR. So stop kissing his ass and start learning about the one running the PR and figure out the best way to get through to me.
2. Do your homework. You’re a PR person you know this is at the center of everything we do. If someone spent 5 minutes googling me they’d see that I am very vocal about PR and have over a decade experience representing top brands (including Apple, thankyouverymuch.) He would have read on my blog that PR to me is much more than media relations. So coming at me in a self-serving public way of my FB wall and telling me you’re going to bring me value from press intro’s (I already have, something else he’d seen if he’d done more homework) then maybe he would have taken a different tact and I wouldn’t be writing this right now. I hope he asks around about this “full of herself” PR person because I’ve worked damn hard for over a decade to develop a very strong reputation in the PR industry with an equally strong track record. Something he didn’t take the time to find out.
3. Be creative. Think bigger picture. If a company is already well on a high trajectory path, what can you, as an agency, add to the mix if there’s a strong PR program already in place? What do you see my needs being in 6 months or a year?
4. Pitch appropriately. Pimping his firm on my wall was a big mistake. Kind of akin to those folks who comment on blogs only to pitch their services and then link to it. No one likes those people.
5. Let them know you’re in it to win it. I told Jack that I didn’t need help with those media he listed. Which is 100% true. He replied I was full of myself. Instead he could have taken a different approach (especially if he’d done his homework) and come back with other p.o.v. I hadn’t considered. Or appealed to a pain point of working in house or trends in the economy or my company’s industry that will make his service a necessity to me. Instead he shot-gunned an answer and in the process burned a bridge and the surrounding mountain it was attached to.
I’ve consulted with several PR friends about this for their opinion and every single one had the same reaction – utter disbelief. Let his mistake be your lesson.
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Nicole,
I think, moreover, your tale is really about how the entire concept of sales has changed in a “social” world, and probably worthy of a post all its own.
- Tony
I hate to say it but this doesn’t surprise me one bit. If this is how he treated you BEFORE he got your business, could you imagine working with him and his agency on a full time basis?
This behavior goes beyond agencies as well. Let’s not even talk about recruiters…
I guess Jack thought that the *public* part was publicly pitching his company with any and every sad tactic he could. This is exactly the type of guy that gives PR a bad name and it makes me wonder what advice he’s giving his clients.
His loss, Nicole - and congrats on the award!
AMEN! That’s all I can say.
What a great read,
Awesome article…
Ok I know I’m still writing, but that was full of passion and pure smack down on peeps that deserve it.
hi nic- great post - and i’ve had the same experience dealing with “jack” and i am on the agency side - to say the least.
it’s really interesting how some people forget to consider who the right decision makers are in an organization - and also how the world of PR has shifted and changed in such a way that just “knowing” the right reporters does not cut it anymore. even when you do have a relationship with them, it’s still not easy to get the meeting, and much less have them notice and truly understand your company.
it makes me sad because the industry we work in is only shrinking, IMHO - and it’s folks like “jack” that are going to be at a huge loss long term.
what a way to build a relationship - and even though you aren’t outing him, i know it doesn’t take much in “our” circles to figure it out.
clue in “jack” before you lose any small portion of the “reputation” you may have left.
ugh - irritating.
xoxo
nessasf
Awesome post. That whole thing with him posting right to your wall is absurd. Anyone with an ounce of PR skills would never do something like that. Certainly no one at Heavybag Media would ever do anything like that. We’re professionals! If I wanted to tell you that we could totally help you connect with the people you’re looking to connect with I’d definitely do that in a personal message and not on a public forum like Facebook, or a blog or something.
I have never understood that business development strategy. No, not the behaving like a Jackash, I mean the reading about a company “everywhere,” and then thinking, “oh yeah, I can do better.”
Also, just curious if the firm represented by “Mr. Ash,” is of the variety that took an interest in tech when the $$$ got big again? I won’t miss them when things stay slowed down for a little while.
Wow! I love it. So much discussion. But really, it is ridiculous. A very good fellow PR person (who is a total bad ass in my book) left me a v-mail during the flight that had me cracking up in the cab on the way home. But she too was shocked. And she’s a VP at a prestigious firm in SF. We met in the agency world 6 years ago.
Tony, interesting idea. I’ll have to mull it over and see what clicks.
Serena, such a brilliant point. Although just the taste I had it’s screamingly obvious he never would have made it past one meeting with me during the pitch process.
Danny, thank you! The company is very pumped. And I agree, at least with broader outside circles. I know better. He’s not the majority. Thank God. He does have a strong roster of clients listed on his blog (I didn’t look anywhere else.) And there are several company names listed that play in the broad space my company plays in so I can see the relevant “experience.” But PR is about relationships and working with an agency it’s crucial to have chemistry. We would not have had either.
Thanks Jason. I write from the gut. Sometimes not always a good thing.
Vanessa, thanks doll. You’re a bad ass PR machine too. Hopefully people will slowly start wising up.
JP- I’m totally offended you plug Heavybag Media, your super cool interactive marketing firm on my blog. You’re fired. We’re no longer friends…we’re still on for drinks though, right?
Josh, you have watched me grow through my entire career. You know how passionate I am about this industry. So I think you, of anyone, can appreciate the absurdity of his response to me. I’m not sure about Mr. Ash. It looks like it’s that catch em in the super early buzz phase but I can tell he’d love to add our name to his roster. And, times are tight, so who knows which of those clients are currently active. You know how agencies do that. Thanks for commenting. Good to see you!
As for the comments. Keep ‘em coming. Are there are any approaches that have worked? Not just backfired like this tragic comedy?
I’m not in the PR world, or in the big agency world for that matter. My big go to strategy has always been to add value to other people’s relationsips… a.k.a. help developers / designers offer their clients online marketing services.
It is beyond me that someone could even think that talking smack to the person who’s dedicated in-house to the job would get them an opportunity for the job.
he’s daunted by your brilliance. and he’s a M**TH**F**K*R, Oh, wait, you already alluded to my response, didn’t you?
To be blunt, I’m sort of annoyed that he, even without direct attribution, is getting the attention of a blog post from a smart, talented woman who is clearly at the top of her (and perhaps more relevantly, the world of (insert appropriate up-to-date definition here) PR’s) game.
I respect a bold pitch - I mean come on, NJ, you’re the best at it - but this isn’t bold. It’s short-sighted, obnoxious and - well - DUMB.
I’ll try to make time for a more honest and direct response later…:) NJ, you’re the best. Thanks for making pitches like this silly and irrelevant.
Nicole, I’d like to wax intellectual on this one, but all I can think to say is, “What a tool.” Please let us all avoid Jack Ash-types in the future.
well i found this post from twitter, first i wanna apologize because i don’t know in person …but here is funny coincidence to know ..am commenting from country call Jordan!
back to the post… i read it twice just to be sure for what am gonna say..
my dad told me 10 years ago : all want to share your success, few will show you the mistakes when you are down.
am pretty sure this guy if you signed with ..the prize you got he will claim the credit for, as he is the main reason why your company got it !
This person appears to be crazy and / or desperate. However I am pretty sure I know who it is! Please can we have a contest to suggest who this might be?! Pretty please?
It’s amazing to think someone in a services business would treat a business professional like this, and in a public forum no less! I come from the agency side, and this guy is a disgrace to agencies and PR. Amen to you sister.
Good Morning, Nicole. I thoroughly enjoyed (cringed) reading your post. First- I stumbled upon it on Google, so it’s gone big. Second- Imagine my pleasant surprise when I read the comments and realized that one of the posters is a friend that I’ve known for years and another is a former prospect and now a buddy on FB and LinkedIn… The PR/Media world is much much too intimate for people to lose their cool as this individual did- especially on Facebook! Cardinal rule- Do Not post work/business issues on FB, especially on the Wall.
I conduct business development for my firm, so when I read about a firm behaving that way I couldn’t help but grin. I am sorry that you had to endure the ‘wrong’ side of biz dev. Ouch. I am with Andy- can we hold a contest to determine who it is?
David, yeah. Not wise. At the root of it, it was disrespectful to me as a fellow practitioner. That might be the part that bothers me the most.
Kara, LOLZ. Thanks. You’re the bestest VP of Marketing ever.
Jennifer, I can’t even imagine how big the eye roll was from you when you read this post.
Amous, wise point! Who knows. But from his inital approach with my CEO I could tell it wasn’t a fit. Trust your instincts. They don’t lead you wrong.
Chansy, I am hearing this A LOT. I think this guy was probably having a bad day and unfortunately decided to take it out on me. I always tell people to be careful with assumptions you make about how you can treat others. You never know who people know.
Andy and Steve, Hmm. What kind of contest? Just kidding. I won’t reveal. Why give him the publicity even if terribly negative?! Screw that. I also won’t be referring any of the companies I work with on a partner level to his firm when they ask me for rec’s. His loss.
Steve, wow. On the Goog, eh? Well, it’s probably hitting a nerve with a lot of agency people right now, especially with the dire need for business. The PR world is stupidly small. Incestuous. Odds are very high you and I know each other by one degree. I learned this lesson very early in my career and, boy, am glad I did.
Hey Nicole,
Long time no talk. Your post reminds me of something that happened to me last December. I was doing a first assistant director gig for a low-budget pilot. All cast and crew was working on deferred pay. At that level, you expect to go through a lot of production assistants, especially when you’re working outside in 28 degree weather… And we did have several that didn’t make it past one night with us.
One guy in particular responded to the director’s post on mandy by calling and emailing him repeatedly, then calling me repeatedly after the director sent him to me. I gave him the location to show up to and the time to show up. He called me 20 minutes early and asked where everyone was? Well, of course, preparing for the company to to get to location ON TIME, not 20 minutes early!
Anyway, things didn’t get any better from there. Once we got there, he hung around catering the entire night and didn’t do anything unless I specifically called him out and told him what to do. Then, he disappeared before lunch (which was around midnight) and we never saw him again.
I wrote him off and wasn’t really going to do anything about it, but the next day I got a text message from him saying something about how he had to leave because he’d needed to use the bathroom and had eaten too much food - ! That was bs because, even though we were outside, we were running shuttles back to the nearest crew member’s house to get warm and use bathroom, etc. So I texted him back saying ‘thank you - we’re all set for tonight’, and figured that would be the end of it. After all, if someone walks off set, he should be aware that the people running that set will never hire him again. But I get a text back saying “I don’t want to come back. I don’t want to be around [name of Lead Production Assistant] the snob and people who ass kiss”. Hmmm. Well, if ever I was going to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, I certainly wouldn’t after that! I didn’t bother to answer since I figured he’d had the satisfaction of the last word. But then, some 30 minutes later, I got another text. “But thank you, you dyke”.
what exactly went so horribly wrong with this guy’s expectations that he stewed over our little exchange for half an hour, and then came up with that little nugget (and was that the best he could come up with)? I didn’t rack my brain for the answer all that long, and I didn’t answer him, but I made sure to relay our little exchange to all my acting, directing and production contacts via phone, email and in person. Not sure who this guy is, but he needs to understand that I know a lot of people and he doesn’t. And so does your Mr. Ash.
Rejection is part of business. It helps if you don’t make an ash out of yourself, and if something doesn’t work, you are the one who has to refine your presentation or portfolio, not the potential client. But we will all run into people like this many many times in our lives, and the best approach is ironic.
I know you’re awesome and so does everyone else who really knows you!
H.
Just to chime in here, I am looking at taking a course on how to win business through using a tirade of insults and overall bad behavior, sounds like Jack Ash might be teaching the course. I wonder how he lands dates… “hey ugly, you look like a loser, if I thought you were getting any, I wouldn’t be asking you out. Interested?” - sad man, sad world, please punch me in the face if I ever pull anything even remotely close to this.
Hanna- Good to e-see you! Thanks for the crazy story.
Julzie- You would never pull something like this so I think you’re face is pretty safe.
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